Key insights from the conversation

Personal and professional growth

• Sandra shares her personal background

• Emphasizes her curiosity, creativity, and intensity.

Leadership and team dynamics

• Caring and daring: the importance of caring for teams and daring to lead with authenticity.

• Personal development and self-awareness as key aspects of effective leadership.

• Importance of being true to oneself and showing vulnerability in leadership.

Visualization and intention setting

• Power of visualization: the use of visualization techniques to set intentions and achieve goals.

• Examples include preparing for presentations and managing nerves.

Cultural and mindset transformation

• Sandra’s work in cultural and mindset transformations within organizations.

• Focus on identifying and nurturing individual superpowers and promoting well-being.

• Emphasizing empathy and genuine connections in both personal and professional settings.

Mental health and asking for help

• Sandra shares personal experiences and the importance of normalizing mental health discussions.

• The need to ask for help and support each other.

Coaching and personal values

• The value of coaching in personal and professional growth, asking open questions and exploring possibilities.

• Personal values and how they guide decisions and behavior.

• Best and worst advice ever received

Full transcript

Here is the entire conversation transcript, edited for clarity and conciseness. Here's also the link to the conversation on LinkedIn Live.

Roberto

It's great to see you.

Sandra

Great to see you too. It's a pleasure to be here with you today.

Roberto

for me, too. So first of all, thanks to the people who are already connected. Now I'm checking here. We have already 30 people connected. Yeah. Thank you so much. Seeing all these people connected is an honor and a pleasure because it means what we discuss is meaningful to you. Thank you for investing one hour of your time, our most precious resource. We will never get it back. We'll never be in this moment again. And this is also for you, Sandra because I know all the preparation and care you put into this event. You block your agenda. You're here. You are present. By the way, the people here must know you were here one hour ago or more. And we did all the preparation. We did the technical stuff. So, thank you so much for your presence.

I'm not going to check the chat. So now I will close this to be fully present with you, which means we will check the chat later. So please, everyone who was there, you can say hi and drop a message. So we see that everything is working, and then I'm going to refresh this, and then we will only check the chat in the middle of the conversation, which will be when you check and answer other questions. So that's for the technical preparation. I'm going to close this, and now I'm here. Perfect.

I would like you to do a quick introduction because it's really meaningful for me because we met each other and started interacting virtually in October 2022. Yeah, I checked it and said, wow, almost two years. Our first interaction was about one illustration you positively recalled about the cast of Years and how we create high-performing teams. You gave me feedback and inspired me to aspire to new ideas and perspectives. And this is amazing.

And one of the things that struck me was that you have been extremely curious about everything, willing to learn, and wanting to see how things work. And then, in May 2023, you surprised me with a proposal, which was, remember, it was like, Roberto, I was thinking, I was talking with my team, and we discussed everything we do here with communication, LinkedIn, et cetera. And then I already felt.

OK, this is different. This is sounds exciting. And you said, why don't we meet in person with my team, share, and talk about the things we love? And I took one millisecond to say yes.

Well, and my luck, because I saw that you had and still have a fantastic team of people committed and generous in sharing, and you created this space. So what I said, I immediately saw what a fantastic leader is: a fantastic person who cares, shares things, and can mix things, not only professionally, but can also talk about your personal life and all these things and do it naturally.

So this is what struck me in the beginning, and of course, I still 100 % subscribe to that after one year, and the proof is that you are here sharing your journey and learning.

Sandra

Thank you, and you gaines five new fans during that lunch. I think they will never stop following you. They are among your many followers on LinkedIn because you are also very inspiring.

Roberto

Thank you. Thank you. And there's an anecdote because we met with Eva on the plane, and yeah, she is on your team, and it was a great moment. It was a nice moment. It was the week after my father's death. And it was a sad moment. I remember that I was sitting next to her, and she enlightened my day. And you see all these things and this connection, and who knew that this would happen, thanks to you.

This is another example of how reaching out and taking initiative on things we like can bring unexpected things. Thank you. But after this long introduction, I'm also curious to hear: what do you want the people connected today to know about you? What's your story, Sandra?

Sandra

OK, so it used to be easy for me to introduce myself, but someday, someone told me how you start introducing yourself is extremely important. So what do you say first? And ever since that saying was told by a professional, by an expert, I'm always thinking, my God, what will I choose first?

I'm Portuguese, 45 years old, and have two beautiful kids, Gabrielle, who is 7, and Mariana, at 13. They live half the year in Portugal with their father and half of the year we live here. I'm commuting, and we are all together. I'm a pharmacist and have worked for more than 20 years in the pharma industry, primarily in quality, not only because I study pharmacy but also because of my curiosity.

I also studied marketing and product management. I also studied general management and other things that could not be considered quality-related. So, this curiosity has grown with me since an early age. And I'm also very creative and have a lot of ideas. And that's why you keep seeing me doing different things.

So I would say curious, intense, creative, and for me, there are no impossibles. That is how I would describe myself.

Roberto

I love how you said intense.

Sandra

Because it's true.

Roberto

Yeah, absolutely. And based on what you say, one thing came to my mind: caring and daring.

This also has to do with how you lead teams and people. How does this land with you?

Sandra

Well, it lands. It has been a journey because I have believed in personal development since I was young. So, I started working at 16. At 18, I received my first actual salary. And with this salary, I decided to do a train-the-trainer course instead of going on vacations like my friends.

Since then, I have never stopped. During this personal development and growth journey, I have learned to learn myself, to be self-aware, and to learn that we cannot change who we are. So, our personalities and tempers will always be the same or will stay the same. But we can change our character and the way we behave.

So, the caring and daring or the inspiration and intimidation that they could also feed sometimes is something that if you are aware of, then you can work on. And you can also be honest with the people and tell them, look, I know sometimes I'm too intense, or sometimes I can be more reactive. I want to be different from how I want to be most of the time. If this is the case, help me get a glimpse of what I'm doing and how to control it. One thing is what you are, and the other is what you give to others and how you behave.

And as a leader, which I have been since I was 19 years old, I'm a leader of people; it's even more critical because you have a service, you have a mission to do, and that is to help other people to make their lives better and to make their lives in a positive impact. So you need to be conscious of this. So caring and daring or inspiration versus intimidation in some days is very close to my heart because we need to pay attention to it.

Roberto

And thank you for bringing this up. The way you said that you shared this with the people, you say, OK, this is who I am. This is what I want my tendency to do with my natural tendency to go there, and I can even figure something out. For example, if I go too much there, raise your hand and tell me something. You're permitting them to say something and stating this: I sometimes do that. My intention is this, so please, when this happens, you can tell me, and it will be amazing.

Sandra

Yes. And I'd be grateful if they did that. And I say thanks to them. And I do the same with my managers, being them the CEO, the vice president, or gods, because, in the end, intention makes the difference. And if your intention is positive, then 50 % of the positive impact is there. Being at the presentation, being at feedback, something you want to change. So, intention can be felt by the other person. It's like an energy that you cannot hide it. And if you have the right intention, then it can be seen. In my case, because I smile a lot, sometimes people think that I'm all fluffy and all smile and I'm not. I'm also very demanding and assertive. And the balance is the solution.

Roberto

Yeah. And I love it when you say the intention because, first of all, you set the intention. So it's like in the morning, you say who I want to be today. I have this meeting, for example, today. I thought I had this conversation with Sandra. What's my intention for that? How do I visualize the conversation happening? I want this to be fun. Want to ask questions? I want to discover new things about Sandra. I want to have so much fun. And this already is guiding what's happening. And it's as you say, it's so easy, and you can do it in three or two minutes. What's my intention for today? Who I want to be.

And then, I want to add one thing to the intention: when you are the receiver of something, there is a name called the Hanlon razor, which I found through the Sahil Bloom newsletter, an excellent, nice resource. And it says that when you are in doubt, first think about something happening because of ignorance or stupidity rather than ill intention or malice. So if something happened to you or someone says something that lands badly with you, maybe they don't know something. Perhaps they're having a bad day.

It could be who they are; they didn't do your homework and have no real intention. If I think this, I feel better. But if I think they're getting after me, they want to stick their finger in my eye. It doesn't work because then I'd be fancy, and then I, or perhaps I will take off my virtual knife, and I will stab them, and this is not fine. So this is so important. So it's both sides.

First, you set your intention, and then you must let go of assumptions about other people because we also don't know what's happening in their lives. I want to add one.

Sandra

That's excellent advice. I want to make a remark so people can see how beautiful this perspective is and how it contributes to our happiness.

Roberto

Absolutely. You talked about the manager and how brave it is to go to your manager and say, with care but with assertiveness, as you say now, OK, this that you said made me feel bad. What was her intention? Then, I didn't know. Most of the time, I said I was aware of what happened. I was going down this road and took everything in my way.

I will be more aware next time. And this is what happened 99 % of the time. I also did it. And what happened? They thank you. And I thank the people when they say that to me. Because if they don't say it, they will say it to a colleague. And they say, look, she said this was stupid, and he doesn't care. But tell me, please. I want to know.

Sandra

And I love this because, you know, in quality, the world where I have lived for so many years, and I still live, we say that 99 % of the times that something happens, it's because the process was not well defined, the tools were not appropriate. Only 1 % of the time do we have an issue of deviation—I will not bring the jargon here.

It's because of terrible practice or a bad intention or something. So, this is even used in science, such as quality. Before we went live, you asked me what things I would repeat or use for myself. And I often use what you are saying: It's not personal. What happened, what the person did, it's not on you.

It's just because the person is mad; they don't know how to do better, and their experience has taught them to do this way. Having this internal conversation helps a lot, not only to frame the problem inside you, not to suffer but also to be empathic to the person and help her. So, you gave two pieces of advice.

One was not to take it personally or try to be in another person's shoes. You also talked about visualization. Do you use it? Do you incorporate visualization into your routine? It's a potent tool for talking about it.

Roberto

Yeah, thank you. Thank you so much for this question, Sandra. I love this. By the way, George Kohlrieser, who wrote two books—Care to Dare and Hostage at the Table—inspired this idea of visualization. He said that what we visualize with our mind's eye then guides our actions. And it's as easy as one minute. You can do it.

You can even if you can even combine this with breathing for one minute; you breathe, and you think about what will happen in this meeting. What do I want to happen in this meeting? You feel like a movie, fast forwarding and picture yourself interacting and smiling with the people or thinking about what will happen there. And then how we're going to close. We're going to laugh at that. And we're going to close the deal, the project, whatever. Of course, it doesn't mean it's going to happen. It helps a lot, a lot.

As you said, people and we can feel that. Even imagine, even in my coaching training, the facilitator told us what they were doing in the beginning, in the first hour of the day, before the people were getting into the session, we imagine this vast training room with a circle and three facilitators, two facilitators, and two persons. They told us that they were doing an exercise like some magic and were thinking about what would happen, our intention for the day, and how we wanted this day to be. I would also add one more thing: this is not a short-term tactic, let's say, or practice, which then becomes a habit. But then there is another one, which is thinking about, in general, who I want to be. One question: How do I want Sandra to remember me after this conversation?

Sandra

Exactly. Perfect one. And this is all again setting the intention. And it helps. Regarding visualization, to give a very recent experience. So last week, we were presenting at the town hall, and a project manager and I were part of our PE wellness program. And she had never given a presentation before in a town hall. And actually, she doesn't like to present as most of us do. And because I am always so relaxed, or it seems, people think that I don't get nervous. But I get nervous. In that presentation, I could not be anxious because if Marian felt me nervous, she would even be more nervous, right? So, I had to feel relaxed, confident, and empowered.

While I was listening to people tell me to imagine the audience naked, I followed their advice. But the one I followed was to visualize myself on the stage, doing the presentation, having fun, and saying the words I had to practice. I shared my experience with Marian, and she did the same. In the end, not only did it go well, but more importantly, we had fun.

We enjoy doing it. So visualization is powerful because if you do it, it's not the first time you are on the stage. Michael Phelps did it. So when he won, he said, I'm here today for the first time, but I have swum in this pool a thousand times in my head. So, to give that intention visually, there are so many tools that I wish they taught at school. They would be part of the onboarding, and everyone could have shortcuts to achieving their goals and dreams. So, thank you for bringing this up.

Roberto

Absolutely. Thank you, Sandra. This is a fantastic example. To add to your example, I also don't do the naked people visualization. That's working for me, at least. But yeah, that doesn't work. But there are two things I think about in many one-on-one conversations. So, if this was a one-on-one conversation, would I be nervous?

Probably not, because I know this person. The second one is that I reframe this nerve that I also have into, OK, I respect these people. I care about this and want them to have a good experience. And so this is something positive. And the nerves and the emotions are still there. And if we don't feel it, I may say I don't care so much.

Even before clicking live, I'm the same today as the first time we did it, so this is also fun. And one thing: when you mentioned this wellness, you initially said you were discussing working in quality. What a connection. And I'm super curious because all these things are essential to you. You also mentioned improving their lives and their willingness to improve the people they work with. Can you tell me more about this?

Sandra

Yes, I should have said it in my presentation because although I'm a pharmacist by training, what I have done throughout my life in the several companies I have worked with was to do cultural or mindset transformations. And this is what I'm at. In the several interviews I had when headhunters came to pick me, in the interviews, I always got the question, are you sure you should be working in quality because your profile is more commercial, medical, and human resources? I did, yes, the program of general management and my colleagues thought I worked in human resources until half of the program. So they only discovered that I'm quality-like in the middle of the course. I should have mentioned this: I aim to help people identify their superpowers because we all have them. Sometimes, we are afraid to admit them; other times, we don't see them and need help; and other times, we have experiences that have made our superpowers hidden somewhere. So, I like to do this to get the best out of people.

Sometimes, it's painful because they need to grow, so they are out of their comfort zone because it's uncomfortable. But then they become their best version. The same applies to culture because I believe that one person, one, and you have an illustration of this. One person can change the world. One person can change the company culture. One person can change one thing at a time. So I need to find out where this is coming from because when I was 19, as I mentioned, I was already managing a team of 10 people, and the youngest one was 25 years old. So, I did work hard, but I was also lucky because since the beginning, my teams have embraced me as I was, and they helped me to help them. This is my purpose regarding processes, culture, and, more recently, the wellness space because since I'm at the company Esteve, I have quality, health, safety, and environment.

So, taking care of the people, their health, and their safety are among the things that come with it. So, this became even more present within me. And because I had in my personal life some examples of lack of mental health, I know that we need to take care of our whole physical, mental, social, et cetera. So, since this year, I've also sponsored Be Wellness at Esteve.

Together with the team and the project manager, we are implementing yoga classes and things that can be beautiful on social media. They are things that can transform the ways of working. And this is where we need to make a difference. So, since Johnsons, Novartis, et cetera, I have always been a person who was able to make transformational changes, some of which were not possible to do before. So that's why I'm doing Be Wellness, I'm doing Net Zero, I'm doing other projects besides quality. I don't know how to say no, but that is excellent.

Roberto

Thank you, Sandra, for sharing this story because you are not only quality. You have so many faces. And this is also something that is changing a little bit. We are not mono-dimensional. We have many things. And these things that we have, that we are all of that, are interlaced, and then they support each other. So I'm sure that what you remember from the beginning when I thought about this lunch that we had, all this good vibe that we had, was because of all these things that you let through yourself and let them see who you are. And so you created this space. And you mentioned mental health and taking these things seriously. And also, what I hear is that you normalize these things. The theme of mental health at work is not only in my personal life; I'm curious to know what you learned about this last year.

Sandra

Well, I learned that we are not good at asking for help. And this is true at work, and it's good at home. When I started to post about mental health and how important it was, how many people are struggling, and how important it is to ask for help, I received dozens of hundreds of messages on LinkedIn from people

who were struggling, and they have not shared with anyone. And these posts started; I started to talk about mental health actually after my father committed suicide. And this was a complete surprise for me. So my father was the most funny person in the world. He would enter the room, and he would say a joke, and everyone would be laughing. He was never complaining. Everything was OK. He was such a good vibe.

We worked together about four times a week. I'm a pharmacist. I work in the health sector and did not see it coming—not at all. So this opened a new window for me to understand that not everything is visible, and many people are struggling, ashamed, and afraid of sharing that they are struggling.

This was my most significant learning: we still have many limiting beliefs. This is an important topic: limiting beliefs that we believe prevent us from going further, going bigger, and taking care of ourselves. They are in everything that we do; I need to be better.

To be rich, I need to be manipulative or have bad character, or men don't cry, or so many limiting beliefs that we have from our education, from social media, etc. And one of them is that we can take care of these topics alone. And it's not true. We should ask for help. And how would you respond if someone contacted you asking for help? Would you be available? So it's the same and vice versa. But we have these glasses, these limiting beliefs that don't let us see how simple it can be, and we complicate everything. So now it's straightforward for me to talk about the topic. It was not during a specific time that I had to grieve.

I study a lot. I have talked with many people regarding this topic, and we can make a difference if we are available to talk about this as we talk about football or any other topic.

Roberto

Exactly. Thank you, Sandra, for sharing this story. And also, remember something that you said at the beginning of the conversation. So you said that even one person can change the culture. Imagine, and this is also something that the people may be connected to, and they're probably feeling, as you said, yeah, I'm also starting with this. I am also starting with something at this moment. Everyone, almost everyone, is struggling with something at a certain point. And when you say this to a person, you don't have to say, of course, in a meeting or public, you mentioned the all-hands meeting, maybe there's not that place, or yes, it depends. But what's my intention if you choose, and again, going to the beginning? The purpose is to ask for help, to show that I'm a human being, and they can, at the same time, trust me, and if they didn't trust me, they could help me. It's something that we need to have 100%.

It reminds me of when, ten years ago, I asked for coaching. I did it. And now, almost ten years ago, people are telling me that someone said he may have a problem when you ask for that. But, so this is something that luckily is no longer the reality, but this was real at this moment. So things change, fortunately. And now, we are in a place with coaching; we have nothing to see with what we saw ten years ago. Now, you know, I want to coach. Yes, of course, because I want to be my best version. So that's clear.

And we are not still there with mental health. We still fear that they may say I'm not strong enough. I don't have the courage. I don't have the energy.

Who knows? If someone takes the first step, they permit the rest to do the same.

Sandra

Like everything else, the best way to incentivize and motivate them to do it is by giving an example. Because having a coach is like having a massage, a person that does massage. I go to the massage, I go to the coach. I work on my body, I work on mental health, or I work on my personality and who I am. So it should be the same. And if we talk more, more of us talk about having a coach, being coaching, being coaches, et cetera, then it will normalize because knowing the theory is different than practicing it. And with my current team, I have learned to be vulnerable because I have always been strong. I could always handle everything; nothing would affect me. But actually, this does not help anyone because people don't want see a rock when they know they are also vulnerable and struggling. And so, at some point, I understood that I can be vulnerable. I can show that I also am pissed off and that I'm also frustrated, that I'm also sad. This relief taught me that a leader can be vulnerable no matter how many people you have in your organization. This is just an example of how demonstrating being an example and leaving it can influence others to do it. And so you know the power of coaching, Roberto. I see the power of coaching.

I wonder if people know exactly what coaching is or its power. Could you help us with that? We could also share that with those listening to us.

Roberto

Yeah, that's one of my favorite topics, as your show is. And again, with intention, there's one anecdote. I just finished my CTI certification, which has a formal exam, which is something that, again, talks about having our saboteurs and our inner doubts. I also had my doubts. I also thought, probably until the very last week, that it would be great. Have fun. But then, the week before, I wondered what would happen if I didn't pass the exam. What will happen? And everyone was telling me, you're going to pass. You're amazing. Blah, blah, blah, blah. Of course, they say that because they care about me. But what if I don't pass the exam despite all these things? What would I be if I didn't pass the exam? Well, other people. So this is also already an example of what we're talking about.

And why do I share that? Because my answer to that, to my saboteur, was, what's my intention for this? And what do I like about coaching? So, I want to focus not on the fear of not passing the exam, the shame of what will happen, and how I will tell my friends. But I want to focus on what's the thing that I love about coaching, what excites me, and why always five minutes, 10 minutes before a coaching session, I take a short walk and then again, I think about what I'm going to discover today in this person that I have in front of me. It's such a privilege to hear the things inside everyone because one of the pillars of the coaching practice is that we believe every person is creative, full of resources, and whole. We don't have to fix anything, which is a great liberation because I'm not good at fixing people, and no one needs to be fixed. And I don't want to be fixed. So, the beautiful thing is that you constantly discover things. How do we, again? I would like you to bring it back to our lives because we are both coaches, but I see coaching as having a formal coaching practice with a session, et cetera.

But then there are coaching skills, and you mentioned some of those. You have mentioned asking the people, listening, and caring, not by being involved in their lives but just listening and seeing who this person is. What do they want? What do they value? What are their strengths? What are they struggling with? Just hearing, asking questions, and being willing to be surprised.

Sandra

Yes, I'm a very visual person. You initially fascinated me because I learned with visuals, not auditive, not reading visuals. For me, coaching is not professional, but any coaching is asking open questions and opening the possibilities. So, what it does is that we usually live in squares like this one.

When you answer the questions, your mind starts to get rid of the square. And this is true with the limiting beliefs or with the myths, because you said, I work in quality, but a lot of things. I had several examples in my life where I could convince colleagues who were in marketing, and they moved to quality. Colleagues who were in quality moved to business, to operations, etc. And this was a hard job because people were used to their careers going up. So if I'm a quality technician, I'm a manager, a director, etc. No, no, We humans are fabulous. Are unpredictable. We can do anything. A career path can be this way.

This way, this way, even down then up. So there are no limits. We self-impose our limits. This example of technical people going into business and vice versa is an example. You should do whatever you love because it feels like work only if you love what you do. It feels like you are accomplishing your purpose. So the questions, they do this on a personal level the same.

You might have a dream, and you don't even verbalize or know your dream because you haven't dared to ask. And I have seen it. People say, no, I don't have a dream. I have two jobs and the money to pay my bills. Then, when answering the questions, the person has a dream. The dream even has a business name already chosen. Already, there is a place where the dream can come true. And all of this is, wow, you see people flourishing, and then you gain your day, your hour, or whatever. So, asking has a million possibilities, and it is beautiful what you are.

Roberto

Yeah. Again, the curiosity that you mentioned, when you said the name of the business, I could see that, wow, tell me more, tell me more about this. Yeah.

Sandra

It was here, but she denied it because she was afraid of assuming she had a dream and was worried she could not do it. So it's fantastic. And it's the same with anything. We're just doing a presentation, we're changing jobs, we're getting a partner. The possibilities are enormous. And again, theory is different from practice.

And that's why it's so important to continue to learn and learn with others. Not only training, not only courses but also observing other people. That's why I love talking with people like you. Every time we talk, I learn so much, again so much about observing and using our networks. Because networking means give and take. And this is another myth that people have that is out of interest. And it's not. It's a beautiful tool that everyone has available for free.

Roberto

You raised a great point. You talk about values, Sandra, and we don't know our values. This reminds me of a beautiful exercise that everyone can do: thinking. There are two exercises. One is thinking about the moments in our lives when we were 100 % happy, the best moments of our lives, the highs. And one is thinking about the lows.

So if you're highs and lows, you and I will see. So, what are the common points of this? And where is the low? Some of your values have yet to be honored or expressed. When you are high, it's true. And this is very easy. We can do it on our own, and it's super powerful. There is another exercise we're doing, coaching, which is asking many questions, and if you ask this question and you listen, you listen. The values come from the person, and it's easy to spot them. Then you write it on a paper, write all the words on paper on a virtual paper or physical, and you show this to the person, and they say, this is what I heard from your story, and it's when they see and say, wow. Many times, a person said, I like what I see. I saw myself in that and was unaware of how I could come across. So it's like you mentioned the square. It's like opening the square and showing them as a mirror of who you are.

Sandra

And I am not struggling so much. Because my values are freedom, family, justice, and so on, knowing that freedom is more important than family, I could never have chosen a husband who would not give me the freedom I need as a woman, a mother, and a professional.

This is important when making decisions and choices. The same is true at work. I could never work with a manager who is a micromanager because then I would not have my freedom or more flexibility than a micromanager who does not allow for flexibility. So, knowing and accepting our values helps us make decisions without anxiety and improve.

So it's an exercise everyone should do. Define, understand, knowing your values.

Roberto

Thank you so much. At the same time, these are looks; as you said, that theory is straightforward. Then you have to do it. Sometimes, it's as easy as we said; the visualization exercise is easy, and we take time to think independently and see what we want and do not. And then you have to be honest with yourself first. And some will say, my first biological family. Yes, yes, of course. But you're working all the day. You're never home. How can you save your first-value family? So you or vice versa. Exactly. Exactly. And again, as the expectation, because I have to be that person that does this, but then and takes courage to and then also first to all to ourselves and then to express and I admit that I also have my struggles sometimes because I have my value very clear. Then, of course, you have to make a million decisions. And sometimes I say, I know I should do this, but you don't. And then, of course, you have to work it through.

I'm super curious, and we are approaching the end of the conversation. I'm curious because I would love to experiment with you, Sandra. Yeah. I'm also very curious to hear the answers to these questions. There is a great person who also does podcasts and a lot of content that we like, and that person is Jay Shetty. He has a way of closing all interviews and conversations by asking always the same question. A friend of mine, Kate, by the way, embodies this connection and curiosity that you mentioned before. She shared it with me, and I'm curious to see Sandra's answer. So can I do it? OK. So thanks. So the first question, Sandra, is, what's the best advice you ever received?

Sandra

It's the one we talked about today. Don't take things so seriously and personally. Give things the value they have or will have in one year, five years, etc. This is the best advice that applies to work and personal life.

Roberto

Since this is an experiment that we share, I also think about what comes to me with that. One of the best pieces of advice that came to me and is also connected to this conversation is to show more emotions and not hide. We should share more about who we are and what we feel and give more feedback to the people. If we like something, we can say it. We can take a farce and reach out more to the people.

Sandra

You only gave feedback when the person is important to you. As you said at the beginning, time is our most precious asset. If you dedicate your time to giving feedback to someone positive or to improving something, it's because you care. It's because you want to contribute to something better for that person.

Sandra

I hope everyone can see feedback as a gift and that we can all learn how to give good feedback because it's not easy; it's an art, and it needs practice.

Roberto

Yeah, and it's uncomfortable sometimes. It's much easier not to give feedback or say anything because you don't know what will happen after you give that feedback. So it's something brave, and you have to have courage. And again, you care about the person, so you go that extra step.

Absolutely. Thank you. The second question is, what's the worst advice you ever received?

Sandra

OK, I would say that's an easy one, and I would choose a professional one because it's taken with me that I heard from a teacher at a business school that to get to the top, I should get through people, I should do politics, I should be selfish.

I should have my agenda before anything else. It's like the book The 50 Rules of Power; I think it's awful advice, and I'm afraid I have to disagree. So I don't need to do anything of this to get up, whatever that means, because I have had an excellent career and am in a very good position.

And I have never done anything like that. I have always followed my values and what is ethical. So that's sure the worst advice I could have. And it was from someone who should know better. That's probably why it's so memorable.

Roberto

Yeah, it's like absolutely. And look at how curious mine is also from the professional and somehow connected to that. Again, in a business school setting many years ago, I received some advice: to stay close to people. Keep the maximum distance possible. And I admit that since I was in the early days of my career, I bought it, which has an impact. And now, when you see and discuss it, say, how can I do this? It's not who I want to be and not fun. But yeah, it was terrible advice, absolutely for me.

Sandra

Yes, that goes with your first one. Show your emotions, correct?

Roberto

Exactly, that's the other side of the coin. Yeah. I have one more question, Sandra, and I'm super curious: What thoughts do you repeat most during the day?

Sandra

This is a very good one. So I will be sincere, as I'm always candid. This is one terrible thing. I always answer honestly when people ask me questions, which can be tricky. I must repeat to myself daily that you must put yourself on the agenda.

Because my personality and motivation are always more significant when I serve others, so this is the way I'm most motivated if I have a purpose for others. And so, I need to find a way to put myself on the agenda, even if sometimes I need to twist the motivation that it's also something for others. So my daily thought is yes, help others, yes, be a servant, yes, whatever, but also make sure that you include yourself, that you do at least three things in the day just because you want or you wish, not because you are obliged to and that will nurture you. I need to work on this daily, so I prioritize myself as something other than the second or third priority.

Roberto

I love it. I will also add that I agree with that 100 %, and it's not selfish. It's brilliant because if you are on your agenda, care for yourself, and treat yourself well, you can give to others. You cannot put the other first and don't take care of yourself. Absolutely.

Sandra

And you know what my husband says? I love this sentence because I learn a lot from my husband; he teaches me a lot. He says that everything is a type of selfishness. This means I do it when I care for others because it makes me happy. So it's also selfish because I do it for pleasure or satisfaction. And he's right. But it's a suitable type of selfishness. So, we can say the same thing in many different ways, but ultimately, the balance is what makes it.

Roberto

Absolutely. It's like who we want to be. We do it for ourselves, and this is what we express then. It's the first I have done it for myself, which will be with the other. Yes, absolutely. One more question, which is interesting. What's something that you used to value but don't value anymore?

Sandra

This is so easy, so easy. The quantity. The number of friends I have. The amount of power. The number of people reporting to me. So, I have always worked in quality, but only recently have I learned, with age and experience, to value the quality of things over quantity. We don't need a lot; we need genuine, true friends. We can have a small organization to make an impact. We need to care, and we need to have the intention. This is my most genuine answer.

Roberto

Thank you. And I can see that you put this into everything you do. Absolutely.

One thing I don't value is that everything changed with my kids.

In the first years, I just valued myself. It was all about myself. And now, since I have two kids, they're the first thing. So, and, and, and, and yes, if there is something that I have to, OK, to give up or not to do, say, OK, this is much more important. For example, a personal story: my son, Luca, is on the autism spectrum, -and this was something that changed my life completely. And I still do the things I like, but I don't do everything that I like because first of all comes Luca, and then comes the rest, and this is something that I choose, and it doesn't mean that the rest is not important, but I don't value, how to say... It's not only about me. When you have another person in the world who is depending on you, it immediately becomes the priority, at least for me. It was a change.

Sandra

That's true love's definition, and it aligns with your values, I can see. It's beautiful when you talk about Luca and your family. It's just amazing. So thank you for that.

Roberto

Of course, my other daughter, Valentina. I mentioned Luca because it was such a significant change in all the priorities, but the first moment you stop being a parent from not being a parent, it's like double. OK, everything changes.

Sandra

Yes, everything changes, and we can still do everything, or we can still do everything when it makes sense. So, yes.

Roberto

It's half past five, so we can wrap up with one question. I have one more question for you, Sandra: If you had something that you would like to see more in the world and something that you want to see less in the world, what would that be?

Sandra

Well, I would like to see more empathy. This is what I want to see more: that people can put themselves in the other's shoes and understand that everyone is important, regardless of their work, their job, or their socioeconomic status. So my father taught me this, and I hope that everyone can see it and be grateful for what they are in the way because being thankful is a good way to happiness, and what I would like to see less in the world, I think that would be greedy or an evil ambition. This makes everything look like a nonsense competition, and there is space for everyone.

Roberto

I can see that this is how you live, too. You give more of that and try to live that every day. One more question, Sandra. If someone wants to contact you, what's the best way?

Sandra

Well, the easiest way to do it is through LinkedIn. I cannot quickly answer all the messages, but I try. Because that's when I share my thoughts or whenever I think something can be helpful for someone in the world, someone that is reading me, I go there, and in 10 minutes, it needs to be fast because time, as you said, it's a very precious thing, I share there it's easy that I'm notified. LinkedIn would be the best way to reach out to me, and I will try to answer all the comments and messages as a form of respect to those who have taken the time to talk with you.

Roberto

Thank you so much for your time and your presence. You're a very generous, caring, intense, and super-curious person. I want to see more of that, of course. And it was a wonderful conversation. We could go on for hours, but the time is over again. It was a fantastic conversation. I'm so happy that we did it. It was fun—so much fun. I learned very much from you. And I hope people enjoy the conversation as we did.

Sandra

Thank you so much for having me here today. I love it. We will continue to be in touch, and I will invite you to another lunch. So thank you so much. Thank you so much, Roberto. Thank you. Thank you all. Bye-bye.

Roberto

That would be a pleasure. Thank you. Thank you so much. Bye.